Talk:Portuguese language

Updating the number of Portuguese speakers

Hey everyone,

I’ve noticed the numbers for Portuguese speakers on the page feel a bit outdated. For example, L1 257m and L2 17m looks like it’s from older estimates and doesn’t really match what’s happening now, especially with growth in Brazil, Angola, and Mozambique.

I’d suggest bumping it up to about 260 million native speakers and 290-300 million total (native + second language). Something like:

Brazil: ~211 million Portugal: ~10 million Angola: ~20-30 million Mozambique: ~13-15 million Plus the rest (Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau, diaspora, etc.) That’d put Portuguese around 5th or 6th for native speakers and 7th or 8th overall, which feels more accurate for 2025. I got this from stuff like Ethnologue (which is pretty current), recent censuses from Brazil and Mozambique, and CPLP reports. I can dig up exact links if needed, or just use a safe range like 280-300 million to play it cool.

What do you think? If it looks good, I can make the edit, or I’m happy to wait for your feedback to tweak it. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Like56d (talk • contribs) 07:29, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Like56d, please do not change any numbers on the page without also including at the same time a citation to the source where you got it from. Mathglot (talk) 08:41, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

I have reverted your unsourced changes to the article. For further information, see your Talk page. Mathglot (talk) 18:34, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Proposal to Update Data on Portuguese Speakers and Its Cultural/Additional Status in Various Countries

Hello, I’d like to propose an update to the data on Portuguese speakers, incorporating not only official figures for Angola and Mozambique but also the status of Portuguese as a cultural or additional language in countries such as Luxembourg, French-speaking Switzerland, Spain (by region), Japan, the United States, Paraguay, Uruguay, and Sardinia. Below are the details and sources to support this edit:

1. 1. 1. Angola

- **Data**: The 2014 census indicates that 71% of Angolans speak Portuguese as their primary language, with 85% in urban areas. With an estimated population of 37 million in 2025 (UN), this equates to roughly 26.2 million total speakers. - **Sources**:

 - Instituto Nacional de Estatística (INE), *Censo 2014 - Resultados Definitivos*, table “População por Língua Falada em Casa” (ine.gov.ao).  
 - CIA World Factbook (2024), “Languages” section (cia.gov).  
 - CPLP, 2020 report on the growth of Portuguese (cplp.org).

1. 1. 1. Mozambique

- **Data**: According to the 2017 census, 16.6% of Mozambicans aged 5 and older have Portuguese as their native language, and 47.4% speak it fluently. With a 2025 population of 35.6 million (UN), this yields approximately 16.9 million total speakers. - **Sources**:

 - Instituto Nacional de Estatística (INE), *Censo 2017 - Resultados Definitivos*, tables “Língua Materna” and “Capacidade de Falar Português” (ine.gov.mz).  
 - World Bank, *Mozambique Overview* (2024) (worldbank.org).  
 - UNESCO, 2022 report on languages in Africa (unesco.org).

1. 1. 1. Portuguese as a Cultural or Additional Language

- **Luxembourg**: Portuguese is a significant additional language due to the Portuguese community (about 16% of the population in 2023). It’s taught in some schools and recognized as a cultural minority language.

 - **Source**: Embassy of Portugal in Luxembourg (luxemburgo.embaixadaportugal.mne.gov.pt); Statbel Luxembourg (2023).  

- **French-Speaking Switzerland (Suisse romande)**: Notable presence in francophone cantons (e.g., Geneva, Vaud) due to Portuguese immigration (around 196,000 speakers in 2008, likely higher by 2025). Cultural use in associations and community media.

 - **Source**: Swiss Federal Statistical Office (bfs.admin.ch).  

- **Spain (by region)**: In Galicia, Portuguese is close to Galician (Galician-Portuguese diasystem) and occasionally taught as an additional language. Elsewhere, minor influence via immigrant communities.

 - **Source**: Observatory of the Portuguese Language (2020) (artsandculture.google.com).  

- **Japan**: Historical legacy from early European contact (16th century). Portuguese is a marginal additional language, studied in academic or cultural contexts (e.g., Lusophone studies in Tokyo). Observer status at CPLP since 2014.

 - **Source**: CPLP, 2014 summit (cplp.org).  

- **United States**: Spoken by about 687,000 people (American Community Survey 2007), mainly in Massachusetts, Florida, and New Jersey. Cultural language in Luso-American communities, with courses and festivals. Likely higher in 2025.

 - **Source**: American Community Survey (census.gov).  

- **Paraguay**: Around 10.7% of the population (636,000 people) speaks Portuguese, especially near the Brazilian border. An additional language influenced by Mercosur.

 - **Source**: CPLP 2020 report (cplp.org).  

- **Uruguay**: Equal status with Spanish in education near the Brazilian border since 2008, and a mandatory subject from 6th grade elsewhere. Growing as an additional language via Mercosur.

 - **Source**: UNESCO, 2020-2023 estimates (unesco.org).  

- **Sardinia**: Limited historical influence (e.g., Alghero, via medieval Iberian contacts). Rare cultural use, present in linguistic studies.

 - **Source**: Academic studies, *Lusotopie* (2021) (brill.com).  

1. 1. 1. Global Sources

- United Nations, *World Population Prospects 2024* (un.org). - Observatory of the Portuguese Language (2020) (artsandculture.google.com).

1. 1. 1. Rationale

Ethnologue’s data underestimates speakers in Angola and Mozambique compared to official censuses and recent reports (2020-2025). Additionally, Portuguese plays a cultural or additional role in the listed countries due to immigration, history, or educational policies, which deserves recognition to reflect its global reach. I suggest adding this information to the table or a section on the Lusophone diaspora.

• • Proposal to Update Data on Portuguese Speakers and Its Cultural/Additional Status in Various Countries**

Like56d (talk) 11:51, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi, Like56d! I’m not so sure if ethnologue grossly underestimates the number of Portuguese speakers, but the main difference/discrepancy seems to reside in the fact that the Angolan 2014 census conveys that 70% of the Angolan population use Portuguese as their primary language or main language spoken at home, but it doesn’t clarify if Portuguese is the first language a user came into contact through their parents in infancy, which would specifically qualify Portuguese as their native or mother language. For ethnologue conservative criteria, 40% seems to be a more accurate assessment, but many sources do indeed interpret the data from the census as being the equivalent as 70% of first language speakers. As for Mozambique, in the report Padrão Linguístico de Moçambique, which was made in cooperation with Sweden and draws heavily on census data, there’s an estimation that the total number of speakers of Portuguese in Mozambique may be as high as 58% (but some may have rudimentary skills|proficiency).

Brazilian IBGE estimates a total of 270 million Portuguese speakers (L1+L2), with 250 million native speakers and 20 million second language speakers. That’s very close to the Ethnologue estimation which closes at 267 million, but IBGE doesn’t clearly outline how it arrived at the data and ethnologue is more renowned for its comprehensiveness. I’m not sure how you reached 280 million or even 300 million speakers although I admit I didn’t check every single link you provided. It’s possible that this information may be a little outdated or may not be the most reliable, as calculating a language’s number of speakers is not an exact science. Results may vary quite a lot depending on the criteria applied. Bear in mind that allegedly the 2024 Angolan census carried out in the last year included a specific question in the line of “What is your mother tongue?” so the matter of how many Angolan native speakers of Portuguese exist may be cleared off for good. Results will first surface in the first weeks of May. Good Luck! Filipe Fortes de Oliveira Portela 16 (talk) 23:30, 19 March 2025 (UTC)